01:24:04 Aleksandar Ivanov: This is amazing, thank you for organising! 01:25:16 M Weisenhaus: Part of the issue here is on the culture within the mentor class where students "leaving" the academic track...is viewed as a failure of their mentorship 01:27:45 Julia: Another issue is when the relationship with the mentor is not good and the mentor is not supportive of the student's continuation in academia. Finding advice on moving forward in this case is very difficult, both emotionally and practically. 01:28:02 Aaron Batista: I encourage my students to cc me when they reach out to potential postdoc mentors. That signals that it’s part of my job, and it may help the email get spotted. 01:28:55 patricia cabezas: The “failure” issue is always there but from my experience working in a career service, we usually see that PhDs and postdocs expect that supervisors will ask them about their career plans. I think it is important that PhDs and postdocs bring the topic. 01:31:40 Vishnu P. Murty: It may also be helpful to talk to recent graduates who went into industry, as they often are more well connected than the PIs. 01:31:58 Anirudh GUIS Graz: It also does matter whether the relationship between them is of a mentor and mentee or of boss and subordinate. Some PIs just dont have the time to be Mentors and you can't always blame them for being busy. So i guess it is about being proactive and talkin to others in such a case. 01:32:07 Michael S Landy: At NYU, lots of recent graduates are in Data Science and they network and help new graduates find positions ;^) 01:34:07 Anonymous: What about transitioning into being a Staff Scientist in an academic lab to use your skills for much longer and do amazing science? 01:34:26 Aleksandar Ivanov: Re: previous question but also related to this one. I think the evaluation in Academia currently is based mostly on: 1) What papers you can publish; 2) How much money you can bring to the department. 01:35:07 Aleksandar Ivanov: There is no extra points for being a good mentor or caring about your mentees. 01:35:41 Anonymous Student: isn't in some sense the PhD a path to independence, and your supervisor emailing a future advisor rather than you makes you seem less independent? 01:36:18 Joao Barbosa: Do you think this idea is shared by most PI? That a PI does not do much research. 01:36:42 ptheodoni: But outside academia there is not much freedom in pursuing your own questions, no? 01:36:49 Rachel L: I disagree @Anonymous Student. You want to be more independent, but you’ll be foolish to not make use of your PI’s connections. 01:37:04 Anonymous: Is it appropriate for an incoming terminal MA student to ask a question here? 01:37:18 Chiara Bertipaglia: of course! 01:37:20 Xavier: Of course! 01:37:30 patricia cabezas: Please ask! 01:37:40 Alice Mosberger: @anonymous I don't think it's seen that way. Even as a PI you will need 'reference and support' letters from other people in the field, your past mentors and chairs of your department. It shows that people in the field respect you and want you to succeed 01:38:11 Chiara Bertipaglia: You are never going to stop needing the support and sponsorship of mentors 01:39:40 Paula Croxson: On the question of freedom to do your own research, it depends on the place, and also where you are in the hierarchy. I left industry to get a PhD because I wanted more control over what I researched and i realized I needed the PhD to work my way up, wherever I ended up. But as a senior scientist or lab leader in industry - and think about the many startups as well as more established industry roles - I think you can have a lot of freedom over what you work on. 01:40:08 Anonymous: Thank you! Sorry, this will be a long and somewhat specific/personal question 01:41:09 Štefan Moravčík: @Paula Croxson - Totally agree! :) 01:41:18 Anonymous: I was just accepted to the MA program and am officially matriculating in the summer, although I've been taking non-degree MA classes for a year (which will be transferring over). I struggled in my early 20s with chronic illnesses that put my life on hold for about 5 years, so my resume is weak, and my undergraduate major was unrelated to psychology or research. My symptoms are finally under control, and I'm hoping to gain enough research experience that I can eventually pursue a PhD, but can't help but feel that I'm so far behind that it'll be especially difficult, if not impossible. I don’t know how to frame my lack of progress/poor performance in my early 20s, and feel like it’s both TMI and may hurt me to disclose my health conditions. I’m doing great academically now, and I’m applying to labs regardless, hoping to at least get started. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice for how to put myself in the best position I can to have a chance? 01:41:45 Rachel L: Yah message me directly 01:42:03 Anirudh GUIS Graz: there is probably a difference between getting the PI to help you as cmpared to completely depending on them to secure teh next position for you. One shows you can be a good candidate while the other points towards you needing to be spoon fed 01:42:30 Iris Vilares: academia does allow for time flexibility , which is good to have a child 01:43:12 Rachel L: I feel like this would be a fantastic question to ask women in STEM who are having a family (or have plans on having it) at different stages of their lives. 01:43:13 Samuel Picard: How can good mentorship be incentivised more directly rather than being dependent on the adviser’s goodwill? Our current publication model seems to value senior authorship above all else, and those senior authorships are earned irrespectively of what the supervisory work of the adviser/PI was. Is there something we can do to reward good mentorship through publications directly? 01:44:26 Chiara Bertipaglia: @anonymous your question is so important. Do you feel like submitting it so it can be picked up in future GUIS in case there is no time for doing it today? 01:44:39 Michael S Landy: On the current question: I’ve seen many postdocs in neighboring labs have children while they are postdocs, and manage to have a successful postdoc, continue into academe, while becoming a mother for the first time during a postdoc. It’s of course hugely difficult to do this, but it certainly can be done. Waiting until fertility becomes an issue for you to start a family is a huge sacrifice if a family is something you want as part of your life. 01:44:40 Victoria L Hewitt: I second that Chiara 01:45:33 Anonymous: There’s two anonymouses! Which question? I will submit mine anyway 01:45:39 Alice Mosberger: @ Samuel Picard YES!! this is so important. Good mentorship should be rewarded and bad mentorship punished at the department level. It should be a criteria for tenure. I think there are some initiatives to make this happen but it's hard to implement for sure 01:45:46 jennlauralee: This isn’t a choice women are making alone— our institutions are making these choices for women. What policy changes should institutions make to ensure women aren’t choosing between science and children? E.g., Why does the NYU graduate program make a big show about providing $250 per semester for graduate students with children, as though that were a reasonable amount? 01:45:57 Michael S Landy: Mentorship incentives: outstanding question. We struggle with that in our departments as faculty. The university doesn’t give us much leeway in organizing strong incentives for teaching and mentorship. It’s a difficult problem, indeed. 01:46:20 Gail Rosenbaum: I totally agree that women shouldn’t give up their careers (whether that be academic or industry) if they don’t want to. But as a postdoc in NYC (without a partner who makes tons of money), paying for childcare is not possible. So in some ways, I feel like it is dichotomous (academia, wait to have kids, or I guess leave for a postdoc in a less expensive city? vs. industry and afford to have kids) 01:46:23 Victoria L Hewitt: @Samuel Picard - not enough of an incentive yet for sure - don’t know how to change this 01:47:27 Rachel L: er, looking for the anonymous who asked the question about health and then messaged me. can’t find you because you are all named the asme. can you just change ur name to anonymous-A temporarily? 01:47:33 ptheodoni: Academia requires a lot of traveling all around the world, at least until a position, that makes things difficult even maintaining a relationship. 01:49:02 Anirudh GUIS Graz: @Samuel Picard - That is a little sad the PIs need incentives to just be moral humans, and be there for students who kind of invest almost all their time to produce data for them. I guess the solution is at a more basal level where PIs have the attitude that the graduate student needs them whereas the when it comes to Graduate students they are pretty dispensible. 01:49:15 Anon-1: Renamed to Anon-1 01:49:17 Aleksandar Ivanov: @Samuel Picard - This was exactly my point too earlier. In most places there is some token event here and there forcing PIs to take a leadership/mentorship courses but mostly there is literally no checks in place. I have seen smith quantitative actually recently: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11192-020-03384-x 01:51:48 Victoria L Hewitt: @Anirudh - I don’t think that PIs need incentives to be moral humans - that’s their decision. The issue is that academia rewards those who do not with the ability to continue doing science. Productivity makes institutions turn a blind eye much too often. 01:52:26 Anonymous Student: I share this experience about the simplicity as well as an experimentalist! my advisor wants a simple story but I feel the project deserves more attention and controls. as a result I feel like I'm failing to meet their expectations as I'm trying to do the rest on my own but without their guidance 01:52:26 Julia: @Victoria L Hewitt #capitalism 01:53:21 Aleksandar Ivanov: It’s not only mentorship but sometimes Depts/Unis will even turn a blind eye in the case of harrasament/sexual harassment as long as the PI brings a lot of money and prestige 01:53:28 anonymous: @Samuel Picard - agreed, this is an important question. Hope it is addressed. 01:54:08 Štefan Moravčík: To the PI and leadership/mentorship topic: During my industrial placement before the PhD my colleague (60+) told me this: People who have soft-skills and can work with people go to industry, all the others end up in academia - he had quite difficult relationship with his PI back in the days... Of course this should not be generalized, but selecting your PI for PhD based of whether they have some industrial experience in their CV can be a reasonable advice. 01:54:57 Michael S Landy: Picking a PI: Talk to their students and postdocs to learn about their mentorship skills BEFORE you join a lab, if you can 01:54:57 Aleksandar Ivanov: @Štefan - excellent point! I have heard similar opinions :) 01:55:44 Anirudh GUIS Graz: @Victoria L Hewitt Exactly my point, I feel that academics is already a little too over incentivized and adding to it if we incentivis metorship we will only be making it worse. Being a mentor for the sake of it doesn't really help anyone (unless incentivised, which case the PI benefits and Student is still stuck) 01:55:45 Jonny Coutinho: @Michael S Landy. Great advice! 01:56:12 Jonny Coutinho: Especially if you can talk to students in the lab without the PI around 01:56:58 Aleksandar Ivanov: @Michael, not always possible. Very often PhD interviews are literally just an hour/half-hour and you cannot ‘sample’ well the einvornment. Some things are hidden and only become apparent later on. Know plenty of cases like that a unfortunately 01:56:59 Anonymous Student: (not the OP) the same question about the clash, similar experience - feels like I'm losing my integrity by bowing to their way. plus it will affect me more as my only paper from my PhD (and will reflect badly on me to the wider scientific community) but just one paper of many for them, so they care less about working hard on making it "right" 01:57:11 Michael S Landy: In my program at NYU we specifically set up opportunities to meet with students/postdocs alone during visiting days. It’s really important. But, you might need to seek out such opportunities (email, Zoom, or when in the neighborhood) 01:57:44 Billy Broderick: @Jonny Coutinho, agreed. This is also why having rotations in PhD programs are valuable -- you can figure out whether your style and approach to science meshes with the PI without having to commit to working with them for 5 years 01:58:06 ptheodoni: An ex physics prof of mine with whom I was initially going to do phd with (in physics) he once said: Do you see these dents in the blackboard? Are from hitting the chalk in the blackboard in discussions with ex phd student. (saying that he expects from me to argue with him. I appreciated that.) 01:58:15 Leslie Sibener: adding onto @Michael Landy: picking a pi— also useful to talk to students who rotated in a lab you’re interested but DIDN’T join that lab. Really insightful input from those people too. 01:59:02 Jonny Coutinho: @Billy Broderick. Rotations sounds like a good idea. Don't have much experience with that myself tho. How common are rotation programs like that? 01:59:07 Anonymous: Picking a PI: also talk to other students of other PIs. If the students of the PI in question feel overwhelmed or under pressure, they may not feel like they will tell you that, but their friends will know/ observe the situation in that lab. They might tell you what is going on. I also think that should be a responsibility of other PIs, or at least the department chair to tell the prospective students about a red-flag. 01:59:26 Jonny Coutinho: @Billy and how long do people typically stay within a lab before rotating 02:00:31 Billy Broderick: @Jonny, my impression is it depends on the field: rotations are very common in neuroscience (and I think other biology-related fields) but uncommon in psychology. and length also depends on department/field, but generally 3 to 6 months. 02:00:38 Paula Croxson: Picking a PI: Other PIs may not know - people show a very different side to their peers than their students and postdocs. It’s so important to speak to students and postdocs away from their mentor - and also find *former* students and postdocs if you can. 02:01:52 Anonymous Student: even with rotations you should be careful, sometimes PIs give you a ton of attention to lure you into their lab! so don't just extrapolate from your rotation experience either 02:02:37 Anirudh GUIS Graz: The adivce on the choosing PI based on talking to students during rotations makes a lot of sense for the setting in the USA. But If you take countries in europe or rather any placce where there are no roations to begin with. But when the PhD selecetion procedure to actually becoming a PhD student is a matter of a couple of months and the size of labs are small (as it is often in europe), there isnt enough opportunities to ask around. 02:02:51 Chiara Bertipaglia: I second @Paula Croxson. Old lab people might be more candid in their comments than present lab people. 02:03:12 Chiara Bertipaglia: I meant *previous lab people, not old, sorry 02:03:44 ptheodoni: If you don’t get letter from the person you are working with it makes a very bad impression. the sequential and dependent aspect of academia is a big problem. 02:03:56 anonymous: Agreed with others about advice picking PIs. And try talking to people with more experience in the lab than less. I joined a new lab, and I would’ve given prospective students a different opinion my first year in the lab than now… 02:04:10 Aleksandar Ivanov: @ptheodoni - agree! 02:04:22 anonymous1: Has anyone else been asked to write their own letter? Any advice for talking one 02:04:30 anonymous1: *oneself up? 02:04:45 mariana c: Why is the system not designed to give ‘merit 02:05:00 Anonymous Student: +1 ptheodoni 02:05:19 Aleksandar Ivanov: YES!!!! Wei jJ! EXACTLY! 02:05:31 mariana c: Why is the system not designed to give ‘merit’ to the good mentoring and hope it works by word of mouth? 02:06:13 Cécile Gal: @anonymous1 Yes I have! They edited it though but it saved them time and enabled me to write what I thought had to be emphasised O:) it’s a weird experience but it’s quite an interesting one to think about your strengths and write it down. You can ask your friends and colleague for inspiration! 02:06:37 ek: to what Yael said: “Everyone knows about Prof X” I hate that these people can continue harass students for so long. Like they get a blank slate again whenever their trainees leave 02:07:06 anon: I see. thanks 02:07:08 Anonymous Student: +1 it's a culture of complicity 02:07:08 Jonny Coutinho: @anonymous1 would like to hear an answer as well. Anyone have tips for writing yourself a ref letter? 02:07:22 Aleksandar Ivanov: @ek - exactly, there is a lot of inertia. It takes smth extraordinary to actually take actions against them IF they bring money and prestige 02:07:29 V: Usually during interviews current lab members are being politically correct. They don't want to "badmouth" their PI or make themselves vulnerable or exposed. So, I feel that you still don't get the picture and it depends more on how good you are at getting the subtle indirect cues. It's really hard to get an insider's view. Rotations are great for students, but postdocs sometimes are in the dark. Any suggestions? 02:07:44 Joao Barbosa: I think being given the oportunity to write your own letter, or at least a first draft, is a good thing 02:08:00 anonymous: @anonymous1 @ Jonny I had to write myself a letter recently. I had a few examples from applications from my fellow students though, so I used those as a guide. Maybe ask around from peers to see if they have examples? 02:08:07 Chiara Bertipaglia: @V: my suggestion would be to contact previous lab members 02:08:13 Veronica Caraffini: Letters from PI: I got my PhD position without a letter from my Master's Degree supervisor. He wasn't a good mentor, he kept forgetting writing letters for his students… he actually didn't know who were his students… So when I started the PhD, I made sure I made connections with other professors in order to have people who could write me a reference letter, to not be in a difficult position when searching for a job after the PhD. But I understand that it's not Always good if someone doesn't get a letter from the direct supervisor 02:08:14 ek: Sometimes you can find people that left the lab, sometimes they dare to talk more openly about the lab 02:08:16 Aleksandar Ivanov: @V, I think if you listen carefully, you can see some signals. There is a lot of non-verbal communication too! 02:08:25 Jonny Coutinho: @Joao agreed, even if its not going to be submitted sounds like it could be a good exercise for self reflection 02:09:04 Paula Croxson: @V - you have to talk to students/postdocs outside the lab, too (the “whisper network” is real) and yes, people who have left the lab will be less guarded. Find former postdocs and students. 02:09:05 Joao Barbosa: not only that. You can highlight the thigs you want to 02:09:07 Patricia Cabezas: Agree with @aleksandar. Pay attention to the non-verbal communication! 02:09:26 Julia: When the PI in question has immense power in the department, the student is in a position where talking to other professors is simply not an option. What about asking trusted Postdocs for a recommendation? Is this acceptable? 02:09:33 Anonymous Student: great idea!!!! 02:09:45 Anirudh GUIS Graz: @V i completely agree. But i guess you have to trust your instinct and most of the time it is a gamble. The most non scientific thing you will do in your career in science is choosing a PI 02:09:50 Alice Mosberger: @V sometimes it also helps to talk to people in other labs close by the lab you're interviewing at. They hear things from the students there. Usually people in the institute know in which labs there are issues, so you can ask around widely. 02:10:11 RachelBedder: For asking current lab members about PI's to get a clearer picture: ask specific questions about potential situations, it gives them more opportunity to describe some of the less favourable points and you get a lot more subtext. Also where possible contact the ex lab member via a friend or safe contact rather than via an official university email route. People are often willing to be more honest that way. 02:10:18 Veronica Caraffini: @Julia I did that for my PhD and it worked. But I remember having to skip some applications cause they specifically asked for a letter from a professor 02:11:03 Julia: @Veronica Caraffini, good to know! Thank you! 02:11:34 ek: Recommendations are tricky though, since the PI might pick someone who they have a good relationship with 02:11:49 RachelBedder: then talk to the person they didn't recommend :p 02:12:12 Paula Croxson: As a PI I gave references for postdocs/students in other labs when they had a PI who wouldn’t give them a reference or was blocking them. Look for allies in your department or your field. We are out there! 02:12:19 ek: Yeah.. if they left academia they are sometimes hard to track down.. 02:12:24 PG: Soft-skills question: What would you recommend to improve presentation skills, more in terms of staying relaxed during the talk? I have a bad experience with my PhD supervisor. From my early 1st year, she kept telling me that I have issues with clarity of what I say (even beyond presenting) and I have never been so anxious about saying something as I am right now (4th year PhD). It's a struggle and massive stress for me to handle this. Can anyone relate to that? Thanks in advance. 02:12:47 Victoria L Hewitt: Thanks for ending on this really important point Yael 02:12:48 Aleksandar Ivanov: @Yeal’s point - anonymous feedback from many people will averaged this out 02:13:08 dylan: NYU COVID Coalition Virtual Week of Action: https://tinyurl.com/nyuVWAschedule Petition & Demands for NYU: https://tinyurl.com/CovidPetitionNYU 02:13:15 Samuel Picard: @aleksandar I agree with this 02:13:37 anonymous: That tweet thread was really helpful for me! 02:13:44 Joao Barbosa: somebody has the link? 02:13:53 Aleksandar Ivanov: Yes, great tread! 02:13:59 Aleksandar Ivanov: sec 02:14:04 Paula Croxson: Thanks so much - this was great! 02:14:15 anonymous: https://twitter.com/cogcelia/status/1252965573752848385 02:14:17 mariana c: Thank you very much for this meeting, it was very nice to hear it! 02:14:26 Joao Barbosa: thanks! 02:14:27 Juliana Sporrer: thank you so much for doing this, it's super helpful!! 02:14:28 Clarissa Branco Haas: where is the recording repository 02:14:31 Dina: yes! 02:14:35 V: Relate so much with that last question (@Celia) 02:14:40 mariana c: Yes! 02:14:42 Julia: Yes! 02:14:43 Anon-1: Yes! 02:14:43 Ziming Zhong: Yes 02:14:44 Andrew Chang: yes 02:14:46 Patricia Cabezas: definitely 02:14:46 Jun Lee: Thank you both! Was very encouraging 02:14:47 Samuel Picard: yes 02:14:47 Paula Kaanders: How about offering better support for mentors as well? People might be bad mentors not through bad intentions, but because they genuinely don’t know better. That could be a way to be ‘un-blacklisted’. 02:14:47 Cornelius: yes 02:14:48 emdupre: definitely , thanks ! 02:14:51 V: Such a pity there wasn't time left for that 02:14:52 Aaron Batista: This was great! I’ll listen in again, and more importantly, inform my students. 02:15:00 Ellen Boven: yes 02:15:08 aennebrielmann: Thank YOU, Weiji and Yael! 02:15:13 Olesia Bilash: Thank you! 02:15:15 Sarah Kark: Thanks so much! :) 02:15:15 Anna Neubauer: Where do we get the recording? 02:15:16 Tal: Thank you! 02:15:17 anonymous: @Paula very good point! 02:15:17 V: Thanks a lot!!! :) 02:15:18 Anna R: Thank you so much! it was great! 02:15:18 Andrew Chang: thank you :) 02:15:19 Patricia Cabezas: This is great. Thanks a lot for organising 02:15:22 Anna Shafer-Skelton: Thank you!!! 02:15:23 Aleksandar Ivanov: Yes! 02:15:23 Anon-1: Thank you so much! 02:15:23 Samuel Picard: Thank you very much this was awesome 02:15:23 Ziming Zhong: Thank you! 02:15:24 Shelby Bachman: Thank you!! 02:15:25 Paula Kaanders: Thanks both! 02:15:25 Jingxuan F: thanks! 02:15:26 rianabrown: thank you! 02:15:27 shannonlocke: Thank you! 02:15:29 Veronica Caraffini: Thanks a lot! 02:15:32 Cécile Gal: Thank you!